tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post2680623723513035613..comments2024-03-27T23:55:17.673-07:00Comments on Flogging Babel: Is The Left Hand of Darkness Sexist?Michael Swanwickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18389836784776252022noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-13097331004544467542013-03-30T19:05:16.118-07:002013-03-30T19:05:16.118-07:00Both innocent mistakes -- yours and mine -- have b...Both innocent mistakes -- yours and mine -- have been corrected. <br /><br />And how fast the decades flee! At least we're still here to marvel at them.Michael Swanwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18389836784776252022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-23719840773053065032013-03-30T16:11:10.021-07:002013-03-30T16:11:10.021-07:00PS: Believe it or not, that class wasn't 12 y...PS: Believe it or not, that class wasn't 12 years ago, it was at least, shudder, 20. We retired from Penn in 1993 and left for SLC in '94.Judyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17830183965954682662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-61132500959617596102013-03-30T16:08:17.429-07:002013-03-30T16:08:17.429-07:00Please feel free. You might first correct the mis...Please feel free. You might first correct the mistake in the last paragraph: conscious should be consciousness.<br /><br />Also, thanks for not calling me Judith again! I was thinking of maybe retaliating with Mickey...Judyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17830183965954682662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-29455960098886820162013-03-29T07:56:11.211-07:002013-03-29T07:56:11.211-07:00There are many good comments here. Judy, unless y...There are many good comments here. Judy, unless you object, I'm going to put your thoughtful reply on the blog proper this Monday so everybody can see it.Michael Swanwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18389836784776252022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-32747295159706573362013-03-28T08:29:19.874-07:002013-03-28T08:29:19.874-07:00Hmm. I may have worshiped at UKLG's altar so ...Hmm. I may have worshiped at UKLG's altar so ardently that those students may have felt they wouldn't get a fair hearing if they brought their issue up in class. That's too bad. But I didn't only teach content. When I first read the novel, in 1973, I was utterly blown away by the androgyny trope, it's true, but also by the beautiful prose and a taboo-busting love story that moved me personally more than I can say. I hadn't been reading sf for a dozen years or so, but while I wasn't looking the genre had grown up. I taught the book all of a piece: form, theme, style, structure, like you would teach any mature and serious work of fiction.<br /><br />I was not disposed to quibble over pronouns while reeling from my initial encounter with Le Guin's Gethenians. But later, when I read "Is Gender Necessary?", the essay Mary Anne Mohanraj mentions, included in The Language of the Night (1976 version) and then in Dancing at the Edge of the World (1987 version), I agreed absolutely with what Le Guin says in the second revision. Later still Virginia Kidd let me read in ms. a screenplay treatment Le Guin had written, in which she attempts to rectify her mistake by inventing and applying the neuter pronoun English lacks and needs. The pronoun is "un" in nominative and accusative cases (Un invited un to the dance), and "uns" as a possessive (Un did uns homework and went out to play). Not such an easy problem to fix gracefully, alas.<br /><br />I don't think it makes sense to label the book "sexist" or "homophobic." It may look those things from a contemporary perspective, and my students may have called it sexist for reasons that made sense to them in the 80s, but in 1969, its year of publication, Left Hand made a groundbreaking assault on traditional gender attitudes and entrenched homophobia. Change has to begin somewhere. Fair enough to see and say that the novel is grounded in the moment of its appearance; not fair to dismiss the many more ways it burst through that moment to carry feminist conscious forward, to the point where people can look back and mainly see, not the revolutionary message, but the flaws!Judyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17830183965954682662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-53304695143454277022013-03-27T19:50:52.984-07:002013-03-27T19:50:52.984-07:00I agree with FSJL; I feel like the personality and...I agree with FSJL; I feel like the personality and behavior of the Gethen characters was fairly consistent regardless of where they were in their sexual transformation, and it seems like a lot of the gender role assigning type stuff has more to do with the fact that the story is told largely from the perspective of Ai, a person of fixed gender. But it's been a long time and I don't have the book in front of me, so it might be that my own biased memory is misleading me.David Stonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09983230505509685792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-59860858684533189382013-03-27T08:27:46.250-07:002013-03-27T08:27:46.250-07:00One of the more interesting aspects of LHD is that...One of the more interesting aspects of LHD is that while some characters might seem more "masculine" or "feminine" they didn't have to be one or the other automatically in kemmer. Genly Ai was surprised that his feminine appearing "landlady" had fathered but not mothered children.FSJLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15803079547494458258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-2010823127501209362013-03-27T08:27:24.545-07:002013-03-27T08:27:24.545-07:00See LeGuin's essay (in The Language of the Nig...See LeGuin's essay (in The Language of the Night, I think) where she talks about the pronouns in that novel. In the original essay, she defends the use of 'he' as gender-neutral. In a later revision of the essay, done in two columns, she carefully and ardently blasts her earlier self's defense, point by point, and concludes it was a mistake to try to use 'he' as a gender-neutral pronoun. I love that essay; just brilliant.Mary Anne Mohanrajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07743780590702938490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-44282016657597511752013-03-27T08:18:16.358-07:002013-03-27T08:18:16.358-07:00The benefits of being a second generation feminist...The benefits of being a second generation feminist. <br /><br />But I read The Female Man at the same time which was rather an eye opener. Farah Mendlesohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01951321462450109434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-67902400238829147692013-03-27T08:03:58.138-07:002013-03-27T08:03:58.138-07:00You were far more perceptive (and obviously far le...You were far more perceptive (and obviously far less pig-ignorant) at fifteen than I was at seventeen, Farah. Michael Swanwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18389836784776252022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-72389225207081786102013-03-27T01:21:53.616-07:002013-03-27T01:21:53.616-07:00And homophobic. And heteronormative.
Far from arg...And homophobic. And heteronormative.<br /><br />Far from arguing that men and women are the same, the kemmer scenes portray a sexuality absolutely linked to gender performativity in which the "male" takes on "masculine" and the female "feminine" traits.<br /><br />Why?<br /><br />Even at fifteen I smelled a rat.Farah Mendlesohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01951321462450109434noreply@blogger.com