tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post7627382187268841616..comments2024-03-27T23:55:17.673-07:00Comments on Flogging Babel: Ducking the BulletMichael Swanwickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18389836784776252022noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-74415649178525799642008-11-13T05:44:00.000-08:002008-11-13T05:44:00.000-08:00Gardner was the first to apply that word IN PRINT ...Gardner was the first to apply that word IN PRINT to the group. But he didn't invent it or the usage. It was already being bandied about (I seem to recall Pat Cadigan quoting somebody else using the word) for some months before Bruce Bethke's story came out.<BR/><BR/>Bethke's word was actually a homonym because the "punk" part was not a reference to the punk subculture, but empoyed in the derogatory sense.<BR/><BR/>Not that any of this matters, of course. It's just a footnote to a footnote.Michael Swanwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18389836784776252022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-24218784893006651742008-11-12T12:28:00.000-08:002008-11-12T12:28:00.000-08:00Sneaky. Didn't you (somewhere) once state that by...Sneaky. Didn't you (somewhere) once state that by omitting your name from the league of humanists in A Postmodern Archipelago, you were indicating that you fell between the two camps? The fact that Kelly later had a story in Mirrorshades speaks nicely to the fluidity of such classifications (or to the maturing or mellowing -- take your pick -- of Bruce Sterling).<BR/><BR/>Dozois may not have invented the word "cyberpunk" (the honor goes of course to Bruce Bethke), but he was apparently the first to use it to refer to the movement (or "The Movement") and to the sub-genre, which is surely as much a coinage as "humanist" is, in this sense.Jeff Prucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15061790664708806858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-45174738182695659862008-11-12T06:47:00.000-08:002008-11-12T06:47:00.000-08:00Aaaand the answer is... (Envelope please! Rip, p...Aaaand the answer is... (Envelope please! Rip, puff, withdraw. And read) ...<BR/><BR/>Humanists. I was a core member of the humanists, along with Jim Kelly and John Kessel and Stan Robinson and Connie Willis. Bruce Sterling (wearing his "Vincent Omniveritas" mask) defined the group in an issue of CHEAP TRUTH by dumping all the members of his writer-generation into a magnetic field and declaring that the Cyberpunks had drifted to one magnetic pole and all the rest of us to the other.<BR/><BR/>I applied the label Humanists to the group in "A User's Guide to the Postmoderns," without mentioning my own implicit participation therein. And the rest was teapot history.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, I came up with the name by asking Gardner Dozois to come up with a label. He often gets credit for coining the word Cyberpunk (which he didn't) and never gets credit for coming up with Humanist (which he did). Ironic, no?Michael Swanwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18389836784776252022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-660495622714497962008-11-11T17:48:00.000-08:002008-11-11T17:48:00.000-08:00Pre-Joycean Fellowship? Hungryalist Poets? Hudso...Pre-Joycean Fellowship? Hungryalist Poets? Hudson River School? I don't know what to guess.Richard Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833387144768089695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-82590243775729371682008-11-10T14:56:00.000-08:002008-11-10T14:56:00.000-08:00Well, it was sort of a joke comment, too, since I ...Well, it was sort of a joke comment, too, since I haven't the foggiest notion. Stations of the Tide has been classed as Post-cyberpunk, so that's not it. (And it's not like that was really a movement, anyway.) New Space Opera is right out. Are you going to reveal to us that you were a Futurian, and are secretly a timeslipped Doc Lowndes?Jeff Prucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15061790664708806858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-91347301359518540092008-11-10T14:14:00.000-08:002008-11-10T14:14:00.000-08:00I think elfpunk is kind of a joke label, don't you...I think elfpunk is kind of a joke label, don't you? I don't think anybody's ever taken it seriously.Michael Swanwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18389836784776252022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-74118104690034287502008-11-10T10:25:00.000-08:002008-11-10T10:25:00.000-08:00I saw the review of Babel, it was nicely done. Alw...I saw the review of Babel, it was nicely done. Always nice to learn that the author agrees. <BR/><BR/>I told Greg about the piece and killed a lot of photons discussing the subject with him.<BR/><BR/>OzOzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11874080106356780982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1484180326012950400.post-3997917042497716732008-11-10T10:13:00.000-08:002008-11-10T10:13:00.000-08:00You mean besides elfpunk?You mean <I>besides</I> elfpunk?Jeff Prucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15061790664708806858noreply@blogger.com